Dominance Theory Question
#11
Interesting way with dealing with the situation KBB. I'll try to keep them in mind, thanks!

On the shock collars, it's a too much risk too little reward kind of thing. Any benefit you can get from them can be gotten from other methods as well with MUCH less risk.
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Sometimes, the smallest things bring the greatest joy.
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#12
(03-10-2017, 10:47 PM)OKeller-b-border Wrote: Another non confrontational way out of someone face to face discussion. I would just state no matter how much research when there is a need or how to use the  tool I don't feel experienced  in training to attempt using one safely.
 On another note ....What happens if some little kid gets a hold of the controller?

I knew someone who looked to be using what I personally consider dominance training and swore up and down it is not. But my nervous system after spending time with them and their dogs said otherwise. Some of these people love their dogs to bits. And NEED them....they are the one safe thing they can count on. They can't control their world around them enough to feel safe....but one place they can feel like they are confident with their dogs.

Ugh stupid phone ignore this post. Really need to get a computer.

There are instances that I have read the risk to the dog's very life outweighed having highly experienced person use the tool temporarily while helping the dog learn an impulse control. Where nothing else was making progress at a rate needed to keep the dog from eventually coming to great harm or worse. So I have learned from experienced people to not completely judge something black and white. Not that I would open that can of worms with someone who use it as their go to.
“If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans.”
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#13
Yeah, I understand that. Like with the headstrong huskies that don't like to listen to anyone. But I still don't like the whole idea of it.

Looking back, I'm being a little ignorant and judgy myself. Well that's rather hypocritical... Sorry everyone about that. I really need to work on it. Unsure
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Sometimes, the smallest things bring the greatest joy.
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#14
No need to apologize... it is not ignorance it is heart. I felt the same way. Until recently. I have seen family use them completely improperly as a quick fix. Made me sick to my stomach.  Then I heard some life or death training needing help from someone on here. But if people are using breed as an excuse then I would doubt their understanding of what is needed for that particular dog IMO. I have heard somewhere that people go right to breed before even getting  to knoW the particular dog and it's needs
“If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans.”
― 
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#15
I've known of 2 instances where I was OK with shock collars. One was a cat killing husky that knew how to escape and would terrorize the neighborhood. They literally hired a professional to hang around outside their house for a couple weeks while they weren't home(the only time the dog did it) to catch him in the act and give him a very negative experience. He had already killed 3 cats, could go over a 6' fence like it wasn't there, and open the back door to their house. He even broke out a window once and ate his way though 6 different crates. They were in trouble with animal control and had been given a final warning, if he did it again he was to be put down.

The other was a sheep killing dog, not the owners sheep either, not that that would make it ok. The guy with the sheep told the lady that owned the dog that he would shoot the dog next time it came on his property. It was another one that could scale a fence easily. It kind of got in a frenzy and nothing could get it to stop.

Both situations risk the life of the dog and the life of another animal and needed to be stopped immediately.
Gotta love 'em.
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#16
It makes me so very sad to hear this story. No matter what we think of DT or prong collars, the very thought that somebody thinks it is appropriate to use a prong on such a young pup is just mind blowing. To me these are the ideas of those who are involved in the dog world for the status and kudos of a given sport rather than because of a true love of dogs. GSD world probably has more people like this than any other breed due to the IPO/Shutzhound sport.
I know working line GSD's well, I know that a "sports" bred WL Shep and also Malinois can be a handful but there is still no need for the use of prongs just for a dam walk with a baby of 16 weeks. It is pure laziness !!!!!
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#17
Trifan, that is what was so difficult for me.  Putting a shock collar on a baby over basic commands.  Let's hurt a creature that will never speak our language because at 16 weeks old it isn't a robot.  I agree that it is laziness.  I don't know much about IPO/Shutzhound but I do know that GSDs are tough as nails and I think that might also lead some people into treating them harshly.  

I watched my DVD again before I posted because I wanted to make sure I was remembering correctly.  How can it be fair to a dog to give a command and not allow even a fraction of a second to for the dog to comply?  I didn't do a lot of training with my last GSD.  He had basic commands and manners and was a great pet and house dog, that is all I needed from him.  At one point when Tasha was a puppy I decided that his "down" needed work.  He would "OOZE" into his down like thick fudge sauce you would put on ice cream.   I decided I wanted to teach him to drop to the floor the second I gave the command.  It only took a few days with treats and praise to accomplish that.
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#18
GSDs may be tough, but that is no excuse for treating them that way. I got all my GSDs as 8 week old puppies and not one of them failed to learn sit, down, and let's go within 24 hours. Stand, stay, and heel took a couple days more.
Gotta love 'em.
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#19
Gideon's Mom, I agree with you and they a so smart that they are not difficult to teach.
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#20
GM i think the examples you gave where there really is no other option is the only situations I would except the use of shock collars. For training if someone believes they need a shock collar is says a lot about that person. It isn't just ignorance, there is something fundamentally wrong with them if they are comfortable with it.
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