short tail
#1
My hybrid dog has a tail shorter than either of her parents.  The actual tail is a bit over a foot long, and her fur makes it longer, but not as long as it should be.  I remember her tail in infancy being shorter than her sibs.  Would this just be a genetic variation?

The second half of her first year, she looked like a regular Border Collie (like her daddy except for her color) and strangers would say things like, 'I've never seen a white and red Border Collie before!'  Now, aspects from her mom are showing up.  (Delilah is 13 months old.)  She has thick white fur on all of her belly, even below her navel.  She has a deep undercoat.  The backs of her hind legs and her bottom have thick, fluffy fur like a Pyrenees.  Her short-length tail does also.  Now, strangers ask me what kind of dog she is.  I am wondering if she is going to continue to change.  I am also wondering if she will grow anymore.  She has a thick, not fat, build and a deep chest.  She is on the upper end of BC female size.  Do medium sized dogs continue to grow a bit during their second year?
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#2
The length of time that they grow is not based on size so much as breed. Pyrs continue to grow until close to 2 years old. She could grow according to the BC side, the pyr side, or some combination of both. BCs are known for their coat changing through 2-3 years old and continuing to get thinker throughout life. My Pyr did the same. For dogs that have the short tail gene, one gene controls the bob, another controls the length, so it would not have been unusual for everyone in the little to have different tail lengths.
Gotta love 'em.
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#3
(03-27-2017, 06:08 PM)Gideon Wrote: The length of time that they grow is not based on size so much as breed. Pyrs continue to grow until close to 2 years old.  She could grow according to the BC side, the pyr side, or some combination of both.  BCs are known for their coat changing through 2-3 years old and continuing to get thinker throughout life.  My Pyr did the same.  For dogs that have the short tail gene, one gene controls the bob, another controls the length, so it would not have been unusual for everyone in the little to have different tail lengths.

Thank you so much!  So you had a Pyrenees.  I read recently that it is not so uncommon for Pyrs and BCs to mix since they work at the same place.   I also read that all black and white BCs carry the gene for red coats but that it is recessive.  When they mix with a white dog, it can come out.  150 years ago in England, red was the typical color for what we now call BCs.  Also, that situation where a black and white mammal mixes with a white (not albino), and brown offspring can occur.  I cannot remember what the name for it is, but it happened in an experiment my daughter did in high school with a blank and white hooded rat and a white rat of the same size.  She got a litter of brown babies.  Two of Delilah's sibs were brown.  I came very close to buying one of them along with Delilah.  I wish I had.  He looked like a teddy bear.

Thank you again for the information you shared.  You are very knowledgeable.
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#4
Red is the recessive gene so all black and whites MAY have the recessive gene, but they MAY NOT too. Brown is just a variation of red. Red coming out doesn't have anything to do with breeding to a white dog, in fact white dogs are genetically another color, but have a gene for the white to cover the other color. A black and white dog is genetically black with a modifier gene to cause white spots. There are 3 or 4 different white modifier genes that determine where the white is on the body. On a pure white dog, you can tell what the underlying color is by the color of the nose, eye rims, and skin.
Gotta love 'em.
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#5
(03-28-2017, 05:50 PM)Gideon Wrote: Red is the recessive gene so all black and whites MAY have the recessive gene, but they MAY NOT too.  Brown is just a variation of red.  Red coming out doesn't have anything to do with breeding to a white dog, in fact white dogs are genetically another color, but have a gene for the white to cover the other color.  A black and white dog is genetically black with a modifier gene to cause white spots.  There are 3 or 4 different white modifier genes that determine where the white is on the body.  On a pure white dog, you can tell what the underlying color is by the color of the nose, eye rims, and skin.

So since Delilah has tan eye rims and nose, her underlying color is what?  Pyrs always have black noses and eye rims.  I have seen pics of red BCs with tan eye rims and nose.  Green eyes along with them, too.

I love the variety in BCs.  So much better than being just one way.
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#6
Her underlying color is red.  

My red and white BC had sapphire blue eyes the first time we met him, but by the time we took him home, they were green.  A couple weeks later they were khaki brown and there they stayed.  He is a really dark red color, almost liver, but not quite.


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Gotta love 'em.
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#7
(03-29-2017, 02:07 PM)Gideon Wrote: Her underlying color is red.  

My red and white BC had sapphire blue eyes the first time we met him, but by the time we took him home, they were green.  A couple weeks later they were khaki brown and there they stayed.  He is a really dark red color, almost liver, but not quite.

When Delilah was an infant she was white with pale cream markings like her Pyr mom.  Her eyes were blue like her dad.

I have become  very fond of red BCs.
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