The enthusiasm I WISH she would bring to training....
#1
I decided to use Ember's meals for training for a little while. It's not working in nose work (food roll is crazy messy and hard to handle and I'm sure muddling scents). But I wanted to show you just what I know this dog is capable of, and what I'm trying to cultivate while working.





There are a few things to note here.

1) She isn't keen on me reaching for the harness. We are working on that in our off days (today wasn't an off day, it was nosework day). Even so, look at the enthusiasm, look how she lips me but stays in the game quite happily.

2) She is almost frantic. Like, I really am not sure if she's learning anything, really. But I know she CAN learn in this state - this is how I taught her "Spin" and now "Turn". It's the most effective training tool for things she's scared of (hence why I'll be using it for working with my hands and her harness).

3) I'm not yanking on the loop on the harness, I swear. It was just a motion while I was talking to her. She reacted to it though so I will be more careful.

4) As much as I want this, I realized today I don't even know how to work with it. In this state she doesn't even let me get a que out before she is offering behaviors. But she does NOT get frustrated in this state! She will offer behaviors for almost a full minute (I timed it one day, and just stood there holding her bowl)
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Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
Vet-Listed Birthday: May 2, 2014
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#2
Ember
I would not use a harness yet. I have always taught my dogs and my class of leash for quite a while.
I feel the dog has to work independent from us. In fact I have even proofed my dog to give me the bird in Scent Detection if I tell him it somewhere it is not, lol.
When the dog is connected to us it is usually very aware of our presence. Also I watch my dog at a distance when he works, You will learn to read them better this way you will be able to see the llinks
Of the search unfold. This is really important because if you are relying on a tell, You are relying on the weakest link that easily falls apart. Also you are not seeing and feeling your dog in the search, this is so important because it gives us so much information.

Especially with Ember do not put a harness on at this stage she obviously has a negative emotional response to it which could crossover to her Nosework. Much, much later I am talking several months, I would introduce it. By this stage she will have what is known as Obedience to Odour. She will get into the zone and work and hopefully quickly forget about the harness.
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#3
We are having motivation issues and this was suggested. I thought I'd give it a try, not sold on it or anything. But basically she's been walking away from work for the past week, or starting out blazing and then after one rep giving up and offering behaviors instead (like, seriously, she OBVIOUSLY knows what pays but decides it's not worth it, offering behaviors is better in her mind).

This was on suggestion with our instructor (trying out building motivation, and the motivation part is working, it may seem, not sure). It seems to be easier to hold her from behind as opposed to putting my hand in front of her for a chest hold. That is the only reason for the harness (besides just trying to associate it with work). Totally see your point, just not sure which way to go.

Although, maybe with the franticness driven by her meal-food, I might be able to get away with my hand in front. She's yelped at me before though (long enough ago that I'd be willing to try it again now).

Do you have suggestions for getting past the offered behaviors? We've had great success the first week and a half but suddenly it's not good enough for her. I've tried bumping the number of containers up by one each day and she just acts confused and starts offering behaviors earlier.

I never thought behavior-offering would be a problem with this dog...

And here I am complaining LOL!
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Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
Vet-Listed Birthday: May 2, 2014
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#4
Ok this is what I would do
I would go back to fewer containers. Make it easy
Set it up without Ember, Then bring her in with you, do not have any physical contact with her. As soon as she hits it, do not wait for anything, even if you think she was just checking it out. Have some great treats at least five and feed one at a time just above the hide reward.
Do just One search. That is it. Later that day you could do just One more. Less is more
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#5
We have done this. She's glueing herself to me, completely dependent. I've backed all the way up to IYC going for ease and she just leans on my hand and stares at me.

I agree that less is more, especially with Ember. We are now toying with the possibility that she's bored. I didn't think she could learn much in half-minute sessions 2 times a day, but we've determined that she is incredibly smart even if she is soft, so there's something amiss that we need to try different. That is why we tried to move to motivation/independence training to see if that helps. I will admit that the change in the game brought some of her enthusiasm and focus back, so I am leaning more towards board.

Here is the series of the last several homework submissions for reference (oldest to newest).

Single container, seems to understand the game.





First try on 2 containers: great results





Trying out actual hunting: zippiest I've seen her





Shuffle game: adding a third container (again, great results)





Where the behavior starts to degrade: by this point, we wonder if it's the influx of treats (this meltdown happens at the same point in every class we've taken so far).





After coming off a hiatus from the last video, and trying your Suche word out: getting better, but still having to work with high value (in this case boiled chicken in order to keep it less rich)





And then the video in the post above was today. Do you agree it could be boredom?
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Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
Vet-Listed Birthday: May 2, 2014
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#6
Ember, my training is max 2-3 mins and max 3 times a day and this is when I really working at something. Don't underestimate it.
When we do train our long session in my class. Our dogs searches are usually quick with an occasional long one. The dogs probably at most get 6 searches. The next day our dogs are done in.
Draco goes back to bed after his breakfast and gets up when I get home, lol
One way I found helpful to not make the training sessions too long was count out my treats. Most I do is 10 in one session. If it is a new behaviour I am shaping I would do max 20 because I should be rewarding very quickly and often.
Also at least one day a week we have no formal training.
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#7
Ah yes we are already taking tuesdays off completely (per my schedule) and nosework is only every other day. Cool cool. I was going to ask if 10 is enough but you answered it with "new behavior" as we are still in the new stages. This is helpful.
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Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
Vet-Listed Birthday: May 2, 2014
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