Fighting BCs
So sorry to hear this. I guess you learned the hard way to not get your hands involved in a dog fight, it seldom really helps or ends it any quicker and can sometimes exacerbate things. The one you grab feels more vulnerable, cannot flee and may fight even harder. The one you might not have grabbed see's a vulnerable window for attack. I have on a couple of occasions in my life banged a metal kitchen implement on a saucepan or it's lid to break the dogs focus on each other. Anything that makes a loud sharp noise. When they break together with such a strong distraction they seem to forgo that tit for tat last word nonsense that keeps the fight going. I do not suggest noise distraction like this for ANY other purpose.
I like the sound of the behaviourist and hope she can help you. Not all trainers or behaviourists are created equal and there are several different and opposing lines of thought. Not good that you had a previous failure with a trainer but this one could be entirely different. I wish you well and hope you keep us updated.
Some wonderful feedback here, I'm very grateful

Yes I've been wondering how to break up the fights, I've been scratched badly or bitten three times in a week now trying to stop the fights and today was severe ending in a jab at the GP . My career as a hand model is now over.

So loud noise to stop then. OK I'll give it a go.
(05-19-2017, 12:15 AM)blackwell Wrote: Some wonderful feedback here,  I'm very grateful

Yes I've been wondering how to break up the fights,  I've been scratched badly or bitten three times in a week now trying to stop the fights and today was severe ending in a jab at the GP . My career as a hand model is now over.

So loud noise to stop then. OK I'll give it a go.

My idea is unconventional and perhaps controversial but it works for me. As I mentioned, do not use it for anything else and also do not over use it. I am sure it is not pleasant on their ears, it is an aversive and not really in line with how I like to do things and it will become ineffective if they become accustomed to it. Emergencies only. If you are on your own you don't have many options. They are usually beyond your reach mentally in a serious fight. Any form of manhandling requires one person per dog and although I know of physical techniques I frankly would rather try the audible distraction first even if there were two people. You are just throwing a whole lot more stress into the mix if manhandling. Just make it a good noise, no mucking around.
OK they just fought outside for the first time , at least that I know of . Now we can't leave them out on their own. It's becoming untenable.

We were inside eating dinner and they started attacking each other

Again there is no blood

They've had about 7 fights in 10 days but no blood - I'm the one who gets bleeding FFS

But it raises a Qn, is what they're doing now not full on fighting, as there is no blood ? Or there's no blood because we stop the fight early?

Are there levels of fighting? Is what we are seeing the prelude to the main event??
I had 2 females who would go at it at the drop of a hat. They were 10 months apart in age and half sisters. 

It started when the youngest got to the age of around a year. Although they didn't fight often it did happen at the drop of a hat and for no reason at all, ever. The youngest was always the insitgator. I think they fought about 10 or 12 times in 9 years. 

If I was alone with them I would separate them by pulling them apart with their collars, pushing one out or in a door and even tossing a blanket over one of them. What I tried that didn't work for me was, loud noises, water hose and even a large laundry basket put over one of them. If there were 2 of us each one would grab the back legs and pull them apart. 

After a fight they would have to be separated for a few hours or they would be right back at each other. Then each would be on a leash and taken for a walk. All was good until the next time which could be years in between. 
I thought we were good and age had taken the fight out of them but it happened 1 last time when we were playing ball. They were 7 and 8 at the time. 

They didn't fight to kill each other but they did leave some scratches and puncture wounds. I have scars but I would not have left them "to work it out." 
Thinking back I don't know what I would have done if my girls were fighting as often as yours. Now, I would probably have to rehome the insitgator. My thinking has changed somewhat and I now feel it isn't fair to the one who isn't starting the fights to have to live that way. 
She was the only dog I had that liked to fight. One thing that is very different in our situations is my girls never fought in the house. I have some ideas as to why but who knows. 

Fighting dogs disrupt the entire house. I feel what you are going through and I wish you the best. I hope the behaviorist can help you work through this.

One Border Collie Is Never Enough

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Good advice Trifan, not unconventional, the safe way to do it. Because you get in you are likely to get bit, the dogs are in such a heightened state as well. When I worked in boarding and daycare the occasional this happened that's exactly what I did, startle the dogs.
I am sorry you have to go through this. I don't really have much advise to give. Years ago, we had two females that would occasional fight but it only happened about once a year. My Siberian was very dominant and every so often my Golden decided she didn't want to be bossed around and then hell would break loose. There was some puncture wounds. We would break them apart and separate them for at least a few hours so they could calm down. I always had problems with two female cats too. I know plenty of people have females living in harmony but also feel like having two females vs 1 male and 1 female seems to increase the chance of problems. I am not sure why that is though.
When I saw Ember set Kairo straight, I mean that Ember corrected. It would be a "fight" in the lowest sense of the word. Ember would get in Kairo's face and snap/snarl, but never really touch her. Kairo would turn away and so would Ember, both self soothed, and within minutes they'd be best buds again.

There was one time that Kairo decided to fight back, and they were all but rolling and it sounded terrible - it was bad enough to unsettle all the house occupants to the point that everyone jumped whenever a noise came from either girl for DAYS after). I did the unconventional (and dangerous) thing of grabbing Kairo's scruff and pulling her away out of sight. Note that because I was able to do that meant it wasn't a real knock-down drag-out fight - but a scuffle. A very, very loud, rough and tumbly scuffle.

As soon as I did that both calmed down, Kairo immediately re-entered the room and all was normal again. Never had another fight after that (but also didn't allow it).

That time there was a lot of spit/fur flying, but no blood and no wounds. I am glad you have found another behaviorist to try (if I read that correct) and am interested in what they have to say. Please do journal everything you can - make as many observations and note EVERYTHING that happens in the minutes before a fight, during, and after. It will really help you understand what is going on better.
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Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
Vet-Listed Birthday: May 2, 2014
Let's be honest girls,
We don't let it go and that is why if girls fall out it is tricky, I am serious.
Boys can have a disagreement and they move on. It is dealt with. It is interspecies .
This is really sad because now Murph is left outside on her own a lot. Hopefully she realises why but I doubt it.

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