Need Ideas for a client (non-border collie though)
#1
I met with a client today. This was my "wishlist" from her: 

Teach the dog not to....
Beg for food
Run away when in trouble
Jump on people
Yank on the leash

Dog: 5 month old black lab / spaniel mix. Approx. 30 lbs. Around Ember's size (determined once I saw him).

What I thought I would encounter:
Having to teach the dog to look away or go to mat while eating (for annoyance of owner)
Fear behavior, poor recall
Overzealous greeter that was more cute than annoying and easy to fix
A dog that either tries to pull forward or grabs the leash in mouth and gives a good tug.

I mean, it's a 5 MONTH OLD PUPPY! How bad could it be?

What I actually encountered:
Dog doesn't just beg - he takes food right out of your hand while you're eating.
Dog has 0 recall and his name "mostly works" as a recall cue, except she fusses at him regularly.
Dog jumped high enough FROM A SIT to lick my chin. I'm 5' 11''. 
Dog is on 6 foot leash. He bolts in every direction, hits the end of it, swings around the circumference of his circle 2/3 around, then suddenly darts in other direction equally as hard. I spent more time working on my balance than on his LLW skills. I left sore and thinking I pulled a muscle in my shoulder/back. I have NEVER experienced anything like it.

What I was able to work on:
Wait/Take it. Actually got him up to sitting while I held a treat right in front of his nose. Just needs basic impulse control work.

Recall on new cue "Come" and a friendly lesson to the owner about not using it EVER when he is going to get something not nice. She understood it immediately and had never thought about that. Understands the discipline on the human side.

Got a clear "oh, sit gets me attention" click in the dog's head. Saw it. Couldn't get it solid enough in an hour, but owner saw the potential and the process, and has her homework.

Mat work started. This was the client's absolute favorite idea and something we will continue a TON of work on.

Taught the client about "ditching the food bowl". Explained enrichment games to help mentally wear out the little tyrant (and I don't use that term loosely!).

What I couldn't figure out:
That darn LLW. Kairo, the Husky, had enough of a brain to figure out "we quit moving when I pull" in a matter of minutes. Obviously this is a puppy and going to be more work, but in 10 minutes of walking around, the dog NEVER ONCE showed recognition of that concept.

Now, this isn't fear. And it's not aggression. It is literally ADD Puppy Energy. Must see everything! Must greet everyone! Must do so as fast and enthusiastically as possible! Look a person to the left OhHeyLookSomethingEvenMoreInterestingToTheRight!

And it wasn't even frustration. There was a very defining moment I could point out to the sweet, overwhelmed owner when it DID turn to frustration, but it was after an hour of working and being equally over stimulated, so we had it coming. Owner now knows what to look for on THAT end. And then it was more of an over-tired puppy meltdown complete with whimpering, pacing, and grabbing every single item he could reach, as many and as fast as possible. Very different in behavior from the rest of the time - but no less (or more) manic in yanking around in different directions.

I am researching harnesses and asked if she wanted to train collar (work) vs harness (whatever you want to do), or if she wanted "polite" period when a leash is on. She is deciding. If she wants the latter, I'm going to suggest a double clip harness, but I've never used the technique myself. If she decides on the former, I can teach her how to train the association between "do anything" harness and "heel politely" collar. That one is easy.

Right now she is spending a week working on rewarding for a very loose heal position in her living room, and possibly expanding it to the yard in the next couple of days. I'm going to go to her and visit for a second session and see where that work gets them. I'm sure that's going to inform her decision.

I am actively taking suggestions and ideas with me on the road. Anyone have ANY idea on how to stop this behavior? It was NOT fun at all to walk that poor dog!

Client sent me this when she got home:
[Image: IMG_2239.jpg]
[Image: e5Qmm5.png]


Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
Vet-Listed Birthday: May 2, 2014
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#2
Since he is so food motivated, will he shadow handle? My pup at 5 months admittedly needed a lot of reinforcement (a treat almost every step delivered quickly) but he has come so far now he can match my speeds and do turns at 1 year. He got the name Zyggy because he used to Zig Zag everywhere too!
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#3
Honestly I would not feel comfortable making recommendations without physically being with the animal observing as much of it’s body language I could understand in my first meeting. Then with each subsequent meeting adjust and modify what works for that particular animal as I really come to know the dog. I would not take on more than one persons recommendations too complicated confusing. trust your  knowledge. Your confidence got you put yourself out there. You can’t fail if you are trying, keep it fun and positive.
Quick edit!!! I forgot observing the owner’s body language/communication between dog human.
“If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans.”

James Herriot
― 
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#4
In some ways Mattie is a lot like this puppy when it comes to walking nicely on lead.  One of the things that has really helped is to wear Mattie out a little by doing some trick training in the house.  I then take her to the area where I want to work on LLW (for us this was the yard).  I would have her on a long line and let her explore.  I would do this for a few days and then would go out on a 6 foot leash and lots of tasty treats and start in the driveway.  If that went well the next day I would expand the training to include some of the yard.  Anytime Mattie got over stimulated and lost focus I would stop and go back to working on the driveway just long enough to end the session on a positive note.  I kept the sessions really short, 5-10 minutes.

My yard isn't fenced so my dogs aren't allowed to run around unsupervised so that is why I used a long line at first so Mattie could explore and investigate all the new smells and why I started in the driveway.  Concrete doesn't hold scent like the rest of the yard.

By the way, adorable puppy!  I'm glad his owner is getting your help.
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#5
My experience with labs is that they don't usually figure out loose leash walking until about 10 month. Maybe it's because they aren't ready to slow down long enough to think before that. Personally, I would teach collar(polite) until it was extremely well established before allowing harness, because this dog is going to be 75-85 lbs of big lug and may not be able to switch between the 2 with any degree of understanding why the rules changed.
Gotta love 'em.
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#6
Thank you guys! I'm taking notes. I have to admit that this is definitely curing me of wanting a puppy (at least for the next few months LOL!). I'm going to suggest a martingale collar (I already had, but owner has to decide). With the way this dog moves, I think it's needed as a safety measure for escape. I'm specifically going to her house to work in her own environment, so a lot of things will change on our next visit.

I can't remember if it is on this site or in one of my FB groups that there was a discussion about 7pm being "Puppy Witching Hour", all breeds inclusive. I got a text at 7:35 tonight asking "HOW DO I MAKE HIM SLOW DOWN AND STOP BITING BEFORE BEDTIME?!!!!" This is one of those moments where more experience would definitely be beneficial... I could only suggest a very dedicated playtime starting around 7 and then using our "off switch" games I've been teaching her to wind him down for the night after about half an hour to 45 minutes.

Literally the happiest, most confident dog I've ever met - even more so than Kairo. Didn't have a reservation about anything. Cleared a table, tried it again to get into my treat back while I was talking (silly pup thought I wasn't watching LOL!), came up short and creamed it hard enough to yelp - then backed up and tried it again. This dog is going to be amazing as he matures. The owner definitely has the desire to work with him.
[Image: e5Qmm5.png]


Gotcha Day: November 14, 2015
Vet-Listed Birthday: May 2, 2014
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#7
WOW, you sure ended up in the deep end early in the game but I really feel that you have "got this" !!!! Oh my goodness, I can imagine how overwhelming it would feel if you have never done the puppy thing before. In all fairness to puppies, I must say that it does sound as though absolutely nothing has been done with him perhaps for no other reason than not knowing differently at the time. Many a pup has more or less raised itself amidst loving families that just didn't realise. It is wonderful that they are so committed to learning and changing direction.
Agh, LLW can be extraordinarily challenging with a big, energetic, enthusiastic or drivey dog. My strategy has sometimes been to "out move" the dog. Move quickly and erratically change direction, not giving the dog time to assume a direction. Avoid only going backward and forward, a smart dog will quickly start anticipating this. Use voice excitedly to encourage engagement, you are the best thing in the moment, reward and as soon as the dogs is 1/2 way towards putting tension on the lead, change direction again, use voice for engagement etc, etc. Work in a low stimuli area, you might only cover an area the size of a back yard for ages before venturing out to more distractions. I find many short sessions better than asking for too much and for big dogs I like a 6ft lead for this exercise.
I have also used a collar and a front ringed harness together with a double ended lead. Perhaps this is something to consider moving onto as you progress.
I am actually really excited for you. You have so much knowledge and passion, you are going to do great and I look forward to hearing of this adventure.

EDIT: I have found that with a big, excited pup a harness with a clip on the back can just give them more pulling power until they have got the idea.
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#8
(02-06-2018, 04:18 AM)Trifan Wrote: WOW, you sure ended up in the deep end early in the game but I really feel that you have "got this" !!!! Oh my goodness, I can imagine how overwhelming it would feel if you have never done the puppy thing before. In all fairness to puppies, I must say that it does sound as though absolutely nothing has been done with him perhaps for no other reason than not knowing differently at the time. Many a pup has more or less raised itself amidst loving families that just didn't realise. It is wonderful that they are so committed to learning and changing direction.

A few weeks before Christmas my daughter's violin teacher got a puppy.  Wonderful family with seven kids that had never owned a dog.  The oldest children were reading a book on dog training and teaching the puppy basic commands and everyone was enjoying playing and caring for the puppy.  The two pieces of advice I gave the mom were to work on leash manners and don't let the puppy do anything that you don't want it to do as an adult dog.  I told her about bringing my GSD home at nine weeks when he was a 15 lbs./6.8 kg. fuzzy puppy.  I never allowed him to jump on people or pull on the leash and he wasn't allowed on the furniture.  My family wasn't so sure about the rules but understood once the puppy grew into a very lean 90 lbs./40.8 kg. adult
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#9
(02-06-2018, 09:30 PM)Tasha\s&Mattie'sMom Wrote:
(02-06-2018, 04:18 AM)Trifan Wrote: WOW, you sure ended up in the deep end early in the game but I really feel that you have "got this" !!!! Oh my goodness, I can imagine how overwhelming it would feel if you have never done the puppy thing before. In all fairness to puppies, I must say that it does sound as though absolutely nothing has been done with him perhaps for no other reason than not knowing differently at the time. Many a pup has more or less raised itself amidst loving families that just didn't realise. It is wonderful that they are so committed to learning and changing direction.

A few weeks before Christmas my daughter's violin teacher got a puppy.  Wonderful family with seven kids that had never owned a dog.  The oldest children were reading a book on dog training and teaching the puppy basic commands and everyone was enjoying playing and caring for the puppy.  The two pieces of advice I gave the mom were to work on leash manners and don't let the puppy do anything that you don't want it to do as an adult dog.  I told her about bringing my GSD home at nine weeks when he was a 15 lbs./6.8 kg. fuzzy puppy.  I never allowed him to jump on people or pull on the leash and he wasn't allowed on the furniture.  My family wasn't so sure about the rules but understood once the puppy grew into a very lean 90 lbs./40.8 kg. adult

I remember you telling us about this lovely family. How are they all going ?

You gave great advice, in fact if we could only give one piece of advice to a new owner, I think not letting them do as a pup what you don't want in an adult might be the most important of all. It even covers the LLW really.
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#10
(02-06-2018, 10:17 PM)Trifan Wrote: I remember you telling us about this lovely family. How are they all going ?

You gave great advice, in fact if we could only give one piece of advice to a new owner, I think not letting them do as a pup what you don't want in an adult might be the most important of all. It even covers the LLW really.

They are doing well with the pup but Mom admitted that the newness had worn off a bit and she needs to remind the children to take care of the puppy. I offered to bring my daughter over and to help the children with trick training. At next weeks lesson I will offer again and to bring Tasha over (Tasha loves puppies) to play with the puppy and to demonstrate some fun tricks. I think if the children see what Tasha can do that it may inspire them to teach the puppy more tricks.
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