pit bull terrier
#31
I love pitties :-(, the guy in question who I was referring to in this thread has,since passed away and his pit bull stayed with his body till the authorities came. I have never heard such a gut wrenching story. That poor dog, it now lives with close friends if the previous owner and it is still the nicest dog ever. I remember walking.g home from worklast summer and the dog came bounding over to me full speed and rugby tackled me to the ground to lick me to death haha! Well brought up dog :-)... And then I see the little Jack Russell at the boarding kennels I work at who would rather rip your throat out than look at you or the weimeraner who attacked a staff member and was then banned from staying. All the staffies however have been so friendly and lovely! So I don't blame the breed at all!
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#32
Bungalocity,'index.php?page=Thread&postID=151502#post151502 Wrote:So this is my 2 cents. I know I'm in the minority here, so go easy on me lol...
Bungalocity,'index.php?page=Thread&postID=151502#post151502 Wrote:Ban the breed and all of its variants for all I care, I wouldn't lose a night of sleep over it...

I'm in the minority with you on this one Smile If something could be done about the idiots who get these types of dogs wanting them to be aggressive, deliberately breed them to be so, or get them with good intentions but haven't got a clue how to handle them or train them, fair enough. But that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. I wouldn't want people's pets dragged from them to be pts (unless aggressive to people and/or dogs) but I say ban breeding of them (with a very large fine for doing so) and let them die out and in the meantime ALL of them muzzled in public unless the dog passes a thorough behaviour assessment to show they are safe with people AND dogs, to be paid for by the owner. Though I guess then that the thugs wanting status dogs would then ruin another breed such as the GSD :evil:



We've had three incidents with dogs having a go at Barks, all staffies. He was bitten as a very young pup and had a small hole on his muzzle. At obedience class he was sitting by my side and a staffie flew across the room to have a pop. We were out on a walk in a country park, huge open space with nowhere to hide, heard a lot of shouting and yelling, looked round to see a huge staffie coming at us hell for leather with its young male owner racing after it trying to call it back. It was obvious the lad knew his dog wasn't coming to say hello nicely. Those few seconds waiting for it to reach us were terrifying. Marc got down and tried to protect Barks with his body, I tried to put myself between them and it. It went straight at Barks who made no attempt to fight back. Luckily the owner moved like lightening and wasn't far behind his dog. When I said perhaps given his dogs temperament and potential for causing injury he should keep it on a lead he threatened to set it on me.

We've also had one incident with Jessie. She was greeting someone we know with his dogs and there was a large off lead entire male staffie just a few feet away. Now this dog has bitten a Yorkie we know and left it limping and needing vet treatment, yet we still tried to be non-judgemental and so didn't panic and recall Jessie (wouldn't have it anywhere near Barks tho as he is also entire, he's put on lead as soon as we spot it). Jess didn't even look at this dog, just went into her usual submissive pose saying hello to the human and dogs she knew. Then we saw the staffie stiffen, its tail erect and stiff and we knew what was coming. Fortunately its owner was standing right there and pulled it straight off her. He then grinned inanely and said "He just wants to play really". Yeah right.

When I took Barks to puppy socialisation classes, there was a young woman with a Dogue de Bordeaux male. He was as big then as Barks is now and she was struggling. I happened to bump into her some time later when both our dogs were fully grown. Her boy was huge and clearly totally out of control. She had him on lead, she admitted she couldn't let him off as she wouldn't get him back but he was far too strong for her, literally dragging her along the path. I just muttered something and beat a very hasty retreat, praying she wouldn't let go or that the lead would break.



So,no, I don't like bull breeds. I know they can be great with people but I want my dogs to be safe too. It's the sheer power these dogs have and the
damage they can do compared to other breeds. Dogs are social animals, to my mind these bull breeds are an aberration.



I would add that the first friend Barks made as a very young puppy was a lovely little staffie girl. They used to playfight together and she'd have her huge jaws round his neck and never ever hurt him. She still adores him but he's no longer interested, possibly because of the above incidents. Her owner has had staffies before and always from a responsible breeder who breeds for good temperament. If they were all like her I would have no problem whatsoever, I trust her completely.

And son and d-in-law have a little staffie girl who is fine with our two (actually she's a bit short on doggy good manners so our Jess disciplines
her!). In face she's been beaten up by a couple of Border Terriers and only the other week had a huge gash on her nose thanks to a Chihuahua Rolleyes. Neither time she did retaliate.
Yes we all know that it can be those pesky little terriers (actually I love 'em Big Grin ) that can be the most ferocious. But no JRT is going to take our Jessie down and maul her to death.


"Punish the deed not the breed" is of no use to me, once the deed is done my dog could be dead and its too late.

Sorry, gone on a bit. For anyone that got this far Rolleyes rant over Smile Smile
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#33
I don't think that these are bred much to be aggressive these days, with a few backwoods or inner city fighting exceptions, but people seem to go into it thinking they'll be the most benevolent parents etc. But even BC's that are aren't bred with the best Herding intentions in mind still have the brain hard wired to do so.
They are what they are.

Even the esteemed astronaut Mark Kelly who's congresswoman wife was shot by the lunatic in Phoenix last year and who is on an anti-gun crusade in the US here, a video was shot of his prize American Bulldog mauling and killing a sea lion on Laguna Beach a month ago.
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#34
I'm with the minority here, as well. I didn't use to be.. I use to think all dogs were equal. I know nice pits, friendly animals (if a bit too food driven for me).

In an effort not to get attacked on this board (please!), I'll keep my comments brief.

These are the right dogs for the right owner. Unfortunately, the 'right owner' is NOT your average dog owner. It takes someone with a special blend to raise a balanced pit. Don't ask me what that blend is, I'll readily admit I'm not that owner and don't know. A labrador can do fine in almost any home where someone has love, patience, and a few rules to follow. Ditto on a poodle and a host of other breeds. That DOES NOT describe, perhaps, our beloved BCs. And it does not, imho, describe pit bulls.

My fear, and my pet peeve, is the current kick to make these guys look completely harmless. They aren't. And although the RIGHT owner (again, not me) can successfully keep their dog well behaved, most owners can't. A friend tried to tell me that any dog can bite, or any dog can kill.
But that's a lie by omission: sure, dogs bite. But most dogs aren't as muscular, or take their biting as seriously, as a pit bull does. And when pits bite, they BITE. I don't believe they bite more often, but they certainly cause far more damage.

I think we are pretty honest about the faults in our BCs. We don't hide their reactivity, their danger around children if untrained, their herding instincts. We don't sugar coat resource guarding. We all know that BCs take dedication, and we are honest about that. I warn people: yes, he's a great dog. But let me tell you the stories.... I'm honest because I would rather someone NOT consider a bc than get one and decide they'd made a huge mistake. That isn't what I hear from the pit bull defense camp.

So no, it isn't the breed's fault. But pretending pitbulls are something they aren't (Lassies with short fur) is dangerous. The perfect owner can have a perfect dog. But I (imho) think that describes a very rare person.

Oh, and I'll close my post with a story. I promise, there's no biting Tongue.

A friend and die-hard pit bull owner had taken her dog and a neighbor's lab out in a field to play. My friend stepped in a hole and twisted her ankle. Both dogs rushed over frantically to see why she was sitting on the ground. My friend quickly realized she was in trouble, and didn't think she could walk, so she just sat there for a bit. The lab wandered close by, sniffing the ground, and occasionally checking in with her. Meanwhile, her own dog was racing off with the bag of treats (from her pocket) firmly clamped in his jaws.

(and I've known nice pit bulls, too!)
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#35
I agree with them needing the right owners, but thats only in the same way that huskies or any other breed like that need the right owner and training else they will run wild a bit! I hate them being used as a status symbol and agree with the fact that there is always a reason a dog bites.. even if its not noticed! I think they have a bad reputation unfairly as there are plenty of other dog breeds that can be high risk. The only dog I've ever had any bother with myself is a dalmatian one attacked my springer when he was a puppy ( I then got told by the owner who had let him off lead in a public park that he attacks dogs all the time.. as if this was alright!) furthermore a dalmatian bit the tail off another dog in my village! Yet these are seen as cute and cuddly due to disney lol. A lot of it is media portrayal I think.
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#36
I agree that they need the right type of owner. They were bred to be aggressive to dogs and not people so their owners wouldn't have to risk getting bit when they pulled them off another dog in a fight. I work at a dog boarding and daycare facility and in daycare we have more trouble with bully breeds than any others. The fact is that if they are going to do damage they are going to do a lot more than a dog of a different breed would. Personally, I've met more aggressive miniature schnauzers than any other breed. Yet if a schnauzer attacks me it's not going to do near as much damage as a pit would do. Many of these dogs that aren't allowed in daycare are extremely friendly and lovable, to people. I think you can socialize them just like you can socialize akitas or chows or mastiffs or any other breed that was bred for guarding or aggression, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And as much as people don't want to admit it, how a dog was bred really matters in its future temperament. I personally wouldn't own a pit, I don't think I could handle it.

Staffys and Pit Bulls are inherently the same breed. The Staffy people just didn't want to be associated with the bad reputation the Pit name had come to be known. So they called them something different in the 30s and kept breeding them. I think it's kind of silly when people go to great lengths to differentiate between them.
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#37
I think the most humane thing that can be done for this breed is to neuter them all out of existence.
Hey MRenee, a couple litters coming around soon from BGBC's! Karma/Fly...can't go wrong!
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#38
mrenee,'index.php?page=Thread&postID=152367#post152367 Wrote:I agree that they need the right type of owner. They were bred to be aggressive to dogs and not people so their owners wouldn't have to risk getting bit when they pulled them off another dog in a fight. I work at a dog boarding and daycare facility and in daycare we have more trouble with bully breeds than any others. The fact is that if they are going to do damage they are going to do a lot more than a dog of a different breed would. Personally, I've met more aggressive miniature schnauzers than any other breed. Yet if a schnauzer attacks me it's not going to do near as much damage as a pit would do. Many of these dogs that aren't allowed in daycare are extremely friendly and lovable, to people. I think you can socialize them just like you can socialize akitas or chows or mastiffs or any other breed that was bred for guarding or aggression, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And as much as people don't want to admit it, how a dog was bred really matters in its future temperament. I personally wouldn't own a pit, I don't think I could handle it.

Staffys and Pit Bulls are inherently the same breed. The Staffy people just didn't want to be associated with the bad reputation the Pit name had come to be known. So they called them something different in the 30s and kept breeding them. I think it's kind of silly when people go to great lengths to differentiate between them.

Staffys, by all means are VERY dog friendly. I have only met one nasty one and you get a lot around here. They are very playful and always have a good run around with Harvey, so if what you say is true that they are basically the same breed then the Pit Bull can ALSO be dog friendly.
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#39
katy_harvey,'index.php?page=Thread&postID=152395#post152395 Wrote:Staffys, by all means are VERY dog friendly. I have only met one nasty one and you get a lot around here. They are very playful and always have a good run around with Harvey, so if what you say is true that they are basically the same breed then the Pit Bull can ALSO be dog friendly.
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[size=10]The American Pit Bull Terrier or (pitbull, Pit Bull) is a breed known for it's courage and it's ability to take on other dogs.

Dog agression in the pitbull is normal and should not be viewed as a fault or a "problem." Again, dog aggression in the pitbull should not be viewed as a fault or problem.


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quoted from:-

http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pitbull-art...ssion.html



I found this really interesting (but it is rather long!):-

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14810086/Herit...-Semyonova


Smile
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#40
I'll have to take a look at those articles, Furface they look really interesting.

I think a lot of it goes back to breeding, there are breeders that are trying to breed aggression towards dogs out of the breed but plenty of people aren't and there are also plenty of people who breed irresponsibly. I'm not sure how common that is in the UK? And with breeds that are popular like Pits and Am Staffs you get more irresponsible breeding and puppy mills, which leads to bad traits in any breed of dog. I've met plenty of pits and staffs that are great with other dogs, but many more that aren't which I also realize is anecdotal to what I've experienced. I'm not sure if there's ever been a study on how many pits or staffys are dog aggressive.

Also I think it's interesting that the AKC doesn't register American Pit Pulls but they do register American Staffordshires. Though I don't really put much stock into anything the AKC does.

I think most dogs should be neutered or spayed unless they've proved they they are an exceptional specimen of their breed and then be allowed to have puppies, but that's never going to happen especially here in the US.

Bungalocity, I put my deposit down on the litter!! I get third pick and I am so excited I can't hardly stand it. If you weren't all the way in IL we would plan lots of play dates for the brothers. (I really want a male).

And
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